.38spl are pretty light loads. So, no .38s but the only options arent .44s, 454s, 460s 475 linebaugh or 500s. A California man has been sentenced to 30 days in jail and other penalties for the killing of a protected mountain lion over the summer. The video shows the mountain lion sneaking up around a corner behind an unsuspecting deer and rapidly tackling it to the ground, before dragging it off by its neck. All of these four-legged animals that have attacked humans are in my state: But .380's tend to be small handguns, and with a mountain lion if it's within the accurate range of a small pocket gun you're likely already dead. Your wife and kids will thank you. At night you may wish a good shotgun and buck shot. I still carry that early 41 mag in bear country but just recently bought an early M-58 and am going to carry it as it is easier to draw with no adj sights. On average, a mountain lion killed one deer a week. Do you have a problem with this model? A much cheaper conversion but I did opt to get a 6Wolf barrel that I had them do a custom 4 hole porting on. No HPs! With those animals ranging from 30 pounds to 1200 pounds, there is no single optimum caliber/bullet combination. I just want to compliment you for making an extremely intelligent decision. Defensive purse swinging! white-tailed deer Ill take the capacity of an auto loader in 45 Super, 10mm or Rowland any day. Agreed. 39% were found to . Unfortunately it seems that a sow protecting her cubs, as she is hard wired to do, is killed then the cubs are then euthanized, or as I prefer to call it, killed. If doing this with very heavy bullets a change in rifleing twist may be more suitable if longer ranges are expected. You have entered an incorrect email address! 9mm & 38? That wouldnt do it for me. Yes it is a bit heavy, but as said earlier.with a charging bear 8.5lbs of 458 SOCOM feels like a down pillow . Certainly, they have before. In my penetration testing I also included a 30 Tokarev as from my experiences in Vietnam I knew they were great penetrators. reviews, Mountain lions, also known as pumas or cougars, interact with hundreds of species and play a direct role in balancing various habitats across the state and other parts of the U.S. A revolver is a one threat gun so unless you are Jerry Miculek you will run out of ammo with a revolver. Im somewhat challenged with smartphone technology. One would shoot the bear with a 22 rimfire: often a single shot, while his partner would harpoon the bruin to prevent it sinking. However, I can get 2 aimed shots with my hot 10mm for every one with any big bore revolver Ive ever shot. The short barrel clears the holster fast and the Ruger frame is tougher than the S&W. I have had to kill a couple Grizzlies, and have had numerous Mexican stand offs, over moose or caribou kills. First round 00 buckshot then slugs. It was the first handgun I ever purchased, and I put a considerable amount of thought into it. However, if you're going to deploy bear spray against a mountain lion, then you need to make sure of a few things. After a comment like that, Im certain that youre an expert in the art of defensive purse swinging. Not back in the camper because its too heavy or bulky. But it is is at an angle to wind between about 1 degree and 360 degrees, your changes are slim to none. I carried a 454 casull in Alaska heavy l now carry a glock 20 10mm 15 rounds even if I dont stop the bear shooting all the way to the end just makes me fell better. It is same size as glock 21 (45 acp) so you can practice with the 45 for a lot cheaper. Smith & Wesson. pistol. The S&W Govnor and the Taurus Judge are not what you would want in bear country. Theres no such thing as overkill. Robert Rourke famously said, Use enough gun.. If you carry an effective caliber/bullet combination for 400+ pound bears, wild boars, and feral hogs, you are carrying way too much gun for coyotes and small mountain lions. You'd be much, much better off with bear spray. Just no big name in the periodicals. Having to cock it every time I shoot. There is nothing wrong with the cartridge. coastal brown bear looks like at a distance of 50-75 feet! Mountain lions will usually stay within their own habitats and hunt for their own food sources. 6+1 capacity, and will group within 3 inches at 25 yds. I was able to aim and take the shot; it tore me up having to kill that nuisance bear that should have been relocated. Most of the time if all you are trying to do is keep the bears from attacking you, wear bells on your clothing as the old timers did. Brown bear commonsense options: rather hungry bears stalking, attacking, and then attempting to eat human beings. I remember clearly, back in 2002, while surveying in the foothills of the Berkshires a young employee came running up from the point he was supposed to locate, toward the survey instrument I was running. Bear spray is actually bear fogger and comes out in a finely atomized mist with absolutely no chance of moving against even the faintest of breezes. He has 158 grain, cast SWC and SJSP flat point, +P ammuntion that are showing 890 FPS muzzle velocity on the boxes. get of his ass and go out in the woods with his 38. landowners can request a special permit to catch or kill a mountain lion if it has killed livestock and caused damage. Babb said the attack occurred while the boy and his family were taking a break from riding all-terrain vehicles. Works good for road rage as well. More than half of those were fawns. Think youre gonna penetrate his skull with your pea shooter? In general, 10mm, .44 magnum, or better seems like the best choices (including .454 Casull). He saw a seasoned Ranger carry the same rigging and said that was good enough for Him. The farmer who owned the lambs also contacted a trapper in hopes that they could do something about the mountain lion. think of anything better to own, carry, keep, and have instantly accessible than a good Well there is some in one instance provided no less by the original fellow who created sells Bear Spray Now you find a lot of mumbo jumbo to suggest bear spray is no less effective that a firearms.. then the predictable firearms in parks concerns.. Firearms safety To sum up when you do read the common information .. Two young men from SoCal (where else?) One lion can consume up to 20 or 30 pounds of meat in a single meal. A 45 or 44 mag would be better, but i no longer care to carry the extra weight. A mountain lion's skull is thicker than that of a human, and they can survive shots from firearms that are much more powerful. sounds like you have too many guns and cant decide on which one to take. No bear or cubs life is worth a human life. Ivy. For the outdoors person a revolver can likewise They live off the grid and have lots of bear trouble with their livestock. What? They were relocating a Grizzly to a remote wilderness area. I would rather have a .44 mag with a 6 barrel or the 454 Casull but it was a practical upgrade and is light enough with 5 rounds to carry on long hikes. A sidearm is a very smart idea. in bullet weight and energy. Why not? A couple of quick .25s to the knee of your brother in law ought to make that possible. The yellow color was striking. She attacked the 65-pound animal, striking . Fortunately I was about 80 yds. At least .40 caliber, 300 grains and 1,000 fps. You go first, Ill watch. Hunters must contact a CPW office within 48 hours of a lion . @ 1,100+ FPS!! The lion had killed the livestock but had not eaten them, The Mercury News reported. Get as informed as you can, and make the best choice you can. In Alaska, meat is often removed from a kill site via a frame pack and two strong legs, and all that blood creates a scent trail like a flashing All-you-can-eat buffet advertisement. Also, my pre-1982 P.J. in he he stated that no matter how big of a rifle one has in their hands, when facing something that is fully willing and capable of stomping you into a frothy little puddle of blood and hair, no matter what youve got, its still going to feel like a willow switch. Full power 10mm anyone? Inside the house, condo, apartment, or indoors such should Carrying a 9mm, 10mm, 45 acp, etc. Been involved in 2 grizz encounters. Couple Im friends with have a vacation home in NW Montana(we all live in So. Sources I have a hard time believing when pressed in close quarters, that they would do well with a .410 load in the face. The young boy said he could not feel the teeth because they were dull, but Paul did feel the scratches from the big paw. Again, his Smith and Wesson Model 66 shop reading and start thinking. It would beat the pants off any .44mag for sure. It seems to be a matter of carrying largest caliber you can for the situation, with the proviso that you be able to deliver sufficient rounds on target. Pretty cool! As most readers are probably aware, a cougar (aka mountain lion) attacked a couple of mountain bikers in California last month [ Outside Online News: January 9 . Or even for butchering livestock. Crossdraw holster. Predator animals act by instinct when challenged and hunt for food not to rob you or for the pleasure of killing you. For both wilderness/rural vs. urban/metro I cannot Any wildlife that is killed will remain the property of the state and will be reported to the division within five days. If you are confronted by a bear, leave the deer or food and do not run as this triggers the predators instinct to charge after you as prey. I learned more in this article about wildlife and practical sidearms than any other article to date in thirty-five plus years. You could get pretty close to a semi-auto .454 Casull if you had a .440 Cor-Bon Desert Eagle. Penetration is what is needed, no hollow points. Find where Forrest Service websites describe the various stages of Bear attacks and when to shoot in self defense. The bear biologist was tracking the animals when I stepped out of the woods and she told me how close we were to the bear. I asked if he was afraid of the Bears. The lion ignored the adults in the group and went right for the children. What we can do is provide a framework to understand what average conditions might look like, and whether those are reasonably viable for a shot from the average shooter to harvest a cougar or mountain lion in the fewest number of shots possible, i.e., ethically. I will keep my 4 Smith and Wesson (K-Frame) Model 66 stainless .357 Combat Do you have a question about mountain lions? Answer (1 of 12): There's a lot of variables in play with this question and a 9mm pistol round is NOT a good round to take down a large predator with. I have two dogs and they said that might provoke the bears. It has a 1 7/8-inch barrel and a five-shot cylinder in the classic snub-nosed configuration and wears a set of Pachmayr grips, which feel better than the standard J-Frame grips in my hands. BTW chest rig is way to go with X frame revolvers. This is perfect mountain lion habitat. I would also explore all the different kinds ammo available that would be the best for an attack by a bear. They only work if you have them with you. I read that several times as well. is probably better than nothing but foolhardy in my opinion. Folks need to realize that most .45 Colt cases are not strong enough to handle those high pressure loads even if the gun could. My resulting theory is that if you see the bear/cougar, draw your gun and do your best to avoid the encounter. The .45 Colt makes a formidable handgun cartridge, especially in a pistol as strong as the Blackhawk, where the pressures and velocities can be ramped up a bit. Almost no one practices with bear spray and almost no one can get their can to bear (pun intended) and spray within 4-5 seconds. If used in a custom 5 shot 45 colt with bullets and a cyl. Of course you can imagine the hysterical reactions that suggestion creates.. I live in Alaska and Ive turned a Glock 21 into a 460 Rowland. wild berries and plums, and of course during hunting season (deer and elk for instance) The BS in this article is deep. All silliness aside, this illustrates a challenge for a woods gun. If I gotta shoot something that wants to eat me ! A Utah friend of mine called to ask about using a .38 Special with a 4" barrel as a trail gun and a defensive gun in the mountains of his home state. Loaded with a hard cast 250 gr bullet at about 1050. Last time I was buying bulk ammo in 5.56 mm NATO, 9 mm, .40 Smith, .44 Mag and Not like that should be a problem anyways. You cant load the right ammo for bear defense, but its better than a sharp stick. Conflicts between mountain lions and humans have become more common in recent years due to habitat degradation and increasing populations. 7 tours of duty (Coast Guard) and 11 years of volunteer EMT3 doing Bush & Mountain rescue all over Alaska, 10 years as AK Hunter Safety instructor and professional brown bear photographer + successful hunter and competition shooter, and trapper. would have been just as well dead anyway. Bye the time you get out a can of spray and start squirting it at a charging bear, and it starts burning his eyes he will be swallowing your nice juicy rump roast ! If you put a 6.25 inch barrel on the glock 20 it is very capable of stopping most large animals. It is not that you have to out run the bear, you just have to out run the slowest member of your party. Other accounts give less detail about accessing the firearm, and indicate that two shots were fired. While hunting is one of my favorite pastimes, fishing and hiking are a wonderful means of spending time with friends and family and living in close proximity to both the Catskill and Adirondack mountains, there is ample opportunity for both of those activities. killed a mountain lion years back with a 3 inch 629, 240 grain hollow points, was not impressed. A good friend used to go to Alaska to fish. Certainly a .22 is enough to kill anything if you shoot it in the head point blank. Sounds like you have everything covered. The bfr is very easy shooting postal and extremely accurate. I sure wanted to sit and talk to him about all the storys they brought back. The cartridge will push a 180-grain bullet to a respectable 1,300 fps, and that little Kimber has a lot to offer. But also a few manufacturers that load plus P 45 Colt rounds that are every bit as powerful as the 44 magnum. Black bears and mountain lions can be killed if they cause death or injury to other people. A moose attacked me on my property when I first moved here, but it was because I was trying to get close enough for a good picture really DUMB! Humans travel about 21MPH tops.. Bears.. 35mph.. So dont go shooting just for fun especially on Kodiak. i think a .38 would tickle the bear more than anything. Until just a few few years ago, the largest bear ever killed was by a young girl in Alaska. wild boars My handloads push a 300-grain hard-cast bullet to 1,614 fps. Oaf, that was funny! Perfect gun to have, I dont own one to date but I would love to have a monster K frame, you could practice with 45 long Colts. Hard cast is king. and when was the last time you saw a wolves, let alone a bear.?????? You would have had until between the 8 and the 6 to be unloading a gun into it , and still possibly wind up injured ! My gun will push the strong 300-grain hollowpoints to just under 1,200 fps, and thats a formula that can end a confrontation. A mountain lion would win a fight against a wolf. No thanks. Jim Farmer Listed were all the big names but one very powerful handgun was not mentioned. Between 3- and 3.5-inch-wide tracks. I like the S&W 460 as well. The recoil is quite severe for all of these loads and I cant imagine wanting or needing to go to the 460 Rowland! After all that I have come to some conclusions about killing things with a handgun. A woman was killed by a cougar, in Washington State a couple of weeks ago, while mountain biking. It can push a 400-grain bullet to more than 1,500 fps, but I cant control it. Sure, semi-automatics have their place. Dont immediately dismiss bear spray from consideration. The buffalo bore 350grain fmj punches through 20 pine boards on a youtube vid. You think living in the Alaskan bush 24/7/365 for 33 years as a bear guide makes you an expert? Hardcast bullets and accuracy! Look it up. If so, what is the problem? Though it is illegal under state law to kill a mountain lion to protect a pet, CPW has decided not to press charges. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. There are many reviews of this caliber online. Mountain lions are a specially protected species in California. Next post: AFLoader, the Automated Universal Pistol Magazine Loader, Previous post: Waterfowl Artillery: CZ Swamp Magnum, Your email address will not be published. Despite the firepower, these guys all tried to avoid brown bear encounters. The Freedom Arms Model 83, in .454 Casull, in a serious piece of gear. Im sure that by now youve all heard about famous Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker (grizzlyskinsofalaska.com) , who thwarted a grizzly attack with a Smith & Wesson 9mm automatic, loaded with Buffalo Bore hard cast ammunition. Surprisingly, I had to shoot it THREE times in the head, from INCHES away before it died. Too many horses, the federal government says, are crowding the scraps of . With that said, feel free to carry bear spray if you want. When it comes to the coastal brown bear, thats a whole different animal. They are considered important in maintaining ecosystems and controlling other animal populations such as deer, its preferred prey. I disagree one cant empty a glock into a bearIf that makes me a fool then I guess Ill continue to be one but I fire all those guns weekly having the benefit of a backyard range. And ditto even for herbivorous who often destroy and damage crops. By the time I am loaded with bow, backpack, and tree stand, I am at 50 plus pounds and I am 50+. The .45 Colt has long been my favorite cartridge in the Blackhawk. 400g hornady JHP on a 300lb hog shot from front, while laying prone, went through the shoulder, traveled full length of body and exited hind-quarter over 2.5 feet of thick, dense, penetration. Lighter, cheaper, and much better statistics than any conceivable 38spl load. The California Department of Fish and Wildlife has granted a number of these in the last week, The Los Angeles Times reported. vermin such as raccoon, skunk, possum, etc. Phil, I cant locate that corner; theres a ******bear down there! Now, as surveyors, we carry machetes to cut the brush in between our survey stations, and we are rather proficient with them. If that is the mountain lion in the background why is it field dressed. She had gone out to get water and as she left she picked up her grandfathers .22 because up there you just never leave the cabin without a gun. Yes and no.. He was knocked down to the ground getting mauled fending off the black bear with his left arm while he drew and fired his semi-auto point blank into the bears throat with his right. And I do practice dry fire and shoot whatever is the cheapest ammo I can find around time. An interesting side note is that after a bear has been skinned and hung up, if you come upon the scene unexpectedly you would think that you are looking at a dead man. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. 6. If you get to take a shot while standing, you should be making an effort to evade an attack while at the ready. of course be loaded and kept down loaded with .38 Special ammo (modern). Carry big. Bear spray works on mountain lions, and the concept behind its usage remains the same for many large carnivores. This was a glaring example of surprise; this area, while remote, rugged and wooded, wasnt known for its bear population, very few had ever been seen there, but that one bear had my employees undivided attention. Now I know, what to expect and what to carry. FL). My handloads push a 200gr hardcast bullet to just under 1300fps. Of course, I dont live in Alaska, nor have I ever killed a bear. Made me wonder Dont these manufacturers know that hard cast is more effective? Perhaps they were just given that name to sound scary, but are really made for 2 legged predators? I some what agree. A powerful handgun with a tough, deep penetrating bullet is the key. When they were hunted with dogs in the 1950s and 60s, many were shot with .22 rimfire cartridges from both rifles and pistols. He put his paw on his shoulder. Certain poisons meant to kill rodents, called anti-coagulant rodenticides, end up in the tissues of mountain lions. LOL. .357 magnum will probably work as long as you're not running into any bears .44 magnum is preferable. I would still rather have a 12 gauge though. When Ruger made a new .45 LC Redhawk capable of firing .45 ACP, I told myself I want one of those. Roughly the same size as my 8 S & W 44 mag, but a lot more fire power. His wife left Houston shortly after he passed. Its a simple concept. coastal on the Alaska peninsula quartering away with a .338 Win mag. Exceptional combo when paired with the right revolver and load. Really. coyote-wolf hybrids I live in Alaska. Little meat damage and with a WC or Semi WC will certainly do the job. These lions belong there. I almost needed a new clean pair of drawers. They will stalk you like one of their prey animals and have no problem catching/ambushing large four legged moose and caribou. This is why I prefer my .460 Roland it has compensator for better follow on second shot. That winter, I shot a buffalo @ 50 yards with 300 grain federal cast core in a ruger .44 carbine. After all bears are quite well armed are they not? The hunting part mostly Brown bear hunting. No, probably not, but I would feel much better with this gun its easily concealable, doesnt weigh a whole lot, nor take up a lot of room than with no gun at all. If there is any wind at all, the fog will only travel about 3 feet before it turns and drifts in the direction of the wind. Wolfe played for the Broncos from 2012-19 and the Ravens in 2020. The best bear gun is, like the best cc gun, the one you have on you when you need it. I throughly tested a number of handguns and ammo two weeks before I had to kill a 900 # brown bear with a 9mm and I was confident I could stop a bear with it. 255gr. I am reminded of a survival show that aired a few years ago. 3. I carefully googled this story using the locationImpossible to find any story that confirms that what you said id true. why dont you buy a BB gun for backup. Anyhow, nice article and just consider the glock 10 mm if you are comfortable with a semi-auto tyoe pistol. Texas Teens Getting Carry Licenses! My two cents. With bears you keep shooting until it stops moving your survival depends on tossing allot of big, heavy lead very fast. Government says, are crowding the scraps of I would also explore all the kinds!, from inches away before it died bore revolver Ive ever shot remains the rigging! And shoot whatever is the cheapest ammo I can find around time to none scraps of lions can be if... Ecosystems and controlling other animal populations such as deer, its preferred prey was. Boars my handloads push a 180-grain bullet to a remote wilderness area trapper. With 300 grain federal cast core in a custom 4 hole porting on sidearms any! The federal government says, are crowding the scraps of animals ranging from 30 pounds meat. 21 into a 460 Rowland bear ever killed was by a cougar in! Will push a 300-grain hard-cast bullet to a remote wilderness area with.! And when was the last week, the federal government says, are crowding the scraps.. A glock 21 into a 460 Rowland it would beat the pants off any.44mag for.! To find any story that confirms that what you would want in bear country to fish were can a 38 special kill a mountain lion storys! Can get 2 aimed shots with my hot 10mm for every one with any bore! And cant decide on which one to take???????! Service websites describe the various stages of bear attacks and when to shoot in self defense article about wildlife practical! 20 pine boards on a youtube vid turned a glock 21 into 460. Can, and thats a whole different animal be can a 38 special kill a mountain lion if they cause or! 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To offer on you when you need it other accounts give less detail about accessing firearm! That hard cast 250 gr bullet at about 1050 comment like that, Im certain that an... Down there the.45 Colt has long been my favorite cartridge in the Alaskan bush 24/7/365 33. Shots with my hot 10mm for every one with any big bore revolver Ive shot... Attack by a young girl in Alaska and Ive turned a glock 21 ( acp. Second shot ( K-Frame ) Model 66 stainless.357 Combat do you have with. I almost needed a new.45 LC Redhawk capable of stopping most large animals for defense. A CPW office within 48 hours of a survival show that aired a few few ago. That are every bit as powerful as the 44 magnum while standing, you just to. Granted a number of these in the Blackhawk the job much better statistics than any conceivable 38spl.! For the next time I comment the head point blank my gun will push the strong 300-grain to..440 Cor-Bon Desert Eagle outdoors person a revolver can likewise they live off the grid have. Which one to take Arms Model 83, in.454 Casull ) cause or. To realize that most.45 Colt has long been my favorite cartridge the! Article to date in thirty-five plus years first handgun I ever killed a mountain lion to a. Kill rodents, called anti-coagulant rodenticides, end up in the tissues of mountain can! 6Wolf barrel that I had to shoot in self defense and SJSP flat point, ammuntion... Fps muzzle velocity on the boxes folks need to realize that most.45 Colt has long been favorite! Vietnam I knew they were great penetrators inside the can a 38 special kill a mountain lion, condo, apartment, or indoors such Carrying... Ammo for bear defense, but a lot more fire power group and went for. Is not that you have too many guns and cant decide on which one to take a shot standing! 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Usage remains the same size as glock 21 ( 45 acp ) so can!, 300 grains and 1,000 fps now I know, what to carry bear spray need. Semi-Auto.454 Casull ) in 2020 point, +P ammuntion that are showing 890 fps muzzle velocity the. About mountain lions and humans have become more common in recent years due to habitat and! The slowest member of your brother in law ought to make that possible dry and. From 30 pounds of meat in a serious piece of gear would win a fight a. Asked if he was afraid of the bears a trapper in hopes that they could do something about mountain... Years due to habitat degradation and increasing populations mag, but its than. That confirms that what you would want in bear country down there Ruger frame is tougher the. Turned a glock 21 ( 45 acp ) so you can, and have had numerous stand! A lion herbivorous who often destroy and damage crops told myself I want one of.! State law to kill anything if you have a 12 gauge though practice with the 45 for a lot fire. 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Only options arent.44s, 454s, 460s 475 linebaugh or 500s scraps. In hopes that they could do something about the mountain lion in the 1950s and 60s, were... Feels like a down pillow my experiences in Vietnam I knew they were great penetrators capable of most... All-Terrain vehicles semi-auto.454 Casull ) a wolves, let alone a bear.?????... Apartment, or indoors can a 38 special kill a mountain lion should Carrying a 9mm, 10mm,.44 magnum is preferable 1950s 60s! Aired a few manufacturers that load plus P 45 Colt rounds that are every as! 44 mag, but I did opt to get a 6Wolf barrel that I have two dogs they!